Either way – it doesn't matter as this is a massive loss – massive. Walcott brings to Arsenal much more than his skills and pace – if he could have scored a winner against Germany then, politically, it would have been a great lever for Wenger.
Ce-la-vie.
"I don't see what you gain from this friendly because there is no game. You can explain a friendly to prepare for an official match but after this there is no international game for four months." - Wenger
Durrrr, c'mon Wenger - it's a majassive money spinner innit yeah? Fuck football, fuck Walcott - this is all about the dollar - geddit?
Interestingly though, and on that subject – there seems to be a lot of key players missing from the match tonight... will I put money on it?
...Hmmm...
I'll decide during the anthems – or whatever.
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ASI Topic: Mike Riley
Displaying posts 1 - 84 by 16 people
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Post 1 (1 reply)
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 09:18
I knew this game would be as bent as a snake in a jar when this fucker was in charge.
1) Game should be stopped when there is a man down on the field.
2) The foul on Vela. Should be a foul. Instead, Villa got advantage, one long ball and BAM! Agbonlahor scored.
And yes, we did play shit today.
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Post 2 – (2 replies)
TheLostRable (London) replied to TheTurbanator's post on 15 November 2008 at 09:22
Turbanator give it a rest mate.
Its the players fault for playing shit and losing and it seems to be happening far too often these days, and when it does happen we always turn around and look for somebody else to blame
oh the ref was dodgy
the other team were playing unfair
blah blah blah
It's about time that the players took responsibility for our misfortunes rather than looking for a scapegoat every time. Are we turning into a bunch of whiny little school girls or something cos all I hear lately coming from Arsenal is moan this and moan that, and the last time I checked u had to play football to win matches, U cant moan a ball into the net.
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Post 3
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 09:22
Yes, we were shit going forward, didn't create anything real. But both goals, come on. Not a free kick for us because of advantage apparently, but then stop play when villa get the ball WTF. and the first goal, he was being inconsistent because he stopped the game for some villa guy who broke his nail or something but not for sagna lying down clutching his foot.
We should have been able to scrape a 0-0 out of this, riley made it 0-2. And don't fucking slate our defense and goalie, they performed the best today.
Not bothered to rant the same thing again. STOP BLAMING OUR DEFENSE - IT ALL WENT WRONG IN MIDFIELD AND ATTACK TODAY
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Post 4 – (1 reply)
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) replied to TheLostRable's post on 15 November 2008 at 09:26
TheTurbanator is not putting the blame solely on Riley, he is just saying that at those two instances the game should have been stopped, it wasn't and it created two Villa goals. Yes on hindsight maybe they deserved a goal or two, but our defensive performance was good today. Towards the end we were desperate and pushed up, hence a lack of pace and numbers at the back. Almunia very nearly had that shot, in fact it bounced in off him.
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Post 5
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to TheLostRable's post on 15 November 2008 at 09:26
True mate. I'm just disappointed with the game today. Hmm. Next we have Citeh and Chelsea. And we have a CL game in between.
We can't win the title this season, we must get into top 4.
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Post 6
KashmirGirl (London) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 09:28
I agree Turbanator, we wont win the title. We have to make sure we get into the top 4.
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Post 7
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to ChristHeartMurmur's post on 15 November 2008 at 09:29
Almunia saved the penalty for nothing. :'(
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Post 8
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 09:31
Man after a busy week full of upsets, this is just the fucking cherry on the fucking top. Im gna quit ranting it isn't really helping
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Post 9
KashmirGirl (London) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 09:34
Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why,why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why,why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why,why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why,why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why,why,why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why,why, do we do this to ourselves?!?!?!?!?!?!!!
Maybe this should go in the chamber of farts.
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Post 10
JamesDeGoona (St Joseph's College) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 11:57
assassinate Riley lol
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Post 11
ComeOnSimulation (West Midlands) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 11:59
villa had many other chances to score and deserved to win, look at the stats!!! instead of trying to find ways of pinning their goals on the ref!
we really need to be up for the cup(s) now!!! i want to forget about the league now and switch optimism to the CC, FACup, and ECLeague because thats where we are actually performing to an "Arsenal" standard.
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Post 12 – (2 replies)
DogFace wrote on 15 November 2008 at 12:04
Can I just say the people here defending Riley's performance should hang their fucking heads in shame.
Your understand nothing about match fixing.
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Post 13
HimTheManSoon (Uxbridge College) replied to DogFace's post on 15 November 2008 at 13:22
I think this group has 'commercialised' itself we just celebrated 200 members which means we have now started to get a more vaster set of supporters who have a different view on the whole football is fixed issue...
BTW- to all those who defended Riley you all should surely get yourselfs checked...
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Post 14
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) wrote on 15 November 2008 at 16:18
Cameron the fact is, the two goals came from two instances where Riley should have stopped play and didn't - they created other chances, but they missed them all. Call it luck, call it good defending (my preferred version) but without those two decisions (or rather the indecision) by Riley, the score could have remained 0-0.
And Ibrahim, I don't think so, because many of the people who are complaining now are 'veterans' (ie were here from the start) of the discussion boards....
Once again, for the last time today, let me say this: we did not play well going forward, but don't say it was a colectively bad performance because the defense held up well today. We had a bit of luck in the fact that Villa just don't seem to be able to convert chances 100% (how odd). And we had a lot of 'bad luck' (solely in the form of that cunt Riley) which cost us two goals.
Perhaps, if there was a fair ref, they would've broken the score anyway - and I could live with that. But to blame the loss solely on the team is, well, delusion.
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Post 15 (1 reply)
TheLostRable (London) replied to DogFace's post on 16 November 2008 at 08:30
Not defending Riley's performance at all mate.
Thing is every time we lose we also find someone else to blame, always wanna critcise every other person possible but never criticsie ourselves.
As much as an arse Riley is right, can u hand on heart say that we deserved a result out of the game yesterday, be honest now?????
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Post 16 (1 reply)
InLiesDevotion (London) wrote on 16 November 2008 at 10:11
We played rubbish. I never understand why we as supporters are quick to blame everything else but the players. Arsenal played rubbish END OFF!.
Im not a phony Arsenal fan and not one of these 'commercial' fans. Im a loyal Gooner and will be a Gooner till I die.
But the fact remains.
Arsenal are not going to win the Premiership this season. And im not saying this out of pessimism before someone jumps on that and puts that label on me.
If Arsenal was to win the league then Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd will have to go through back to back losses of matches. Which I DONT see happening. (Alright maybe I can see Liverpool 'falling off' cos Liverpool arnt used to being that up the table so lack experience of defending the title). But Chelsea and ManUtd are far too experieced at the top of the league to just let it 'slip'.
To win the title you should not lose 4 games so early into the season and Arsenal have LOST 4 GAMES already and we havnt even reached Christmas yet. DISSAPOINTING.
But as always I have faith and will continue to back Arsenal.
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Post 17
NiceCupOfCha (Queen Mary's Grammar School) wrote on 16 November 2008 at 10:56
yes rowley did fuck up as a referee, am not too sure with the match fixing belief, but rowley fucked the game up big tym. but blaming him solely is fucked. we also played shit and were never confident
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Post 18
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to InLiesDevotion's post on 16 November 2008 at 11:53
What are you saying mate? You have faith and will continue to back Arsenal and yet you said we can't win the league?
As you said, it's only Christmas. Chelsea have their suspensions and injuries allright. Man Utd lost Hargreaves for the season, they are still negotiating over Tevez and they have World Club Cup coming up by Christmas?
As you said, we haven't reached Christmas. It's too early to tell.
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Post 19 (1 reply)
DogFace replied to TheLostRable's post on 16 November 2008 at 13:23
Yup - I reckon that we would have got 3 points if we were allowed to play... we are missing the 'battle' though - so I know what you mean - I would have liked to see the team with more of a 'must win' attitude - when it was going against us we didn't step it up as much as we could... not that it would make any difference though as we did that last season and ran away with it until we were stopped by a series of bad decisions that defies belief.
This season is by far the most rigged season I have ever seen... even the managers are threatening to strike because of the way it's been... the 'respect' campaign has effectively silenced any reasonable criticism of the PGMO and they are making the most of it.
Respect my arse - fucking thievery.
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Post 20
ColonelDecker wrote on 17 November 2008 at 02:47
As this is a topic about Mike Riley I'll comment on his performance on Saturday.
The guy is a total fucking bent cunt and he's been doing this to us for years. Not sure if anybody see the story in the media about 4-5 years ago where they sneakily managed to hoodwink his elderly mother to give them a picture of his room?
Well it was right in the middle of his 12 pens at old trafford in 13 games all in favour of united, the picture shows a young Riley in his room which is covered wall to wall in Manchester United posters memorabilia etc.
''At Old Trafford, Riley's record is weighted more heavily in favour of United, though that is to be expected given that they dominate more games at home. United's record is: P14 W10 D1 L3, with ten penalties for United and one against (again Liverpool were the beneficiaries, this time when Gary Neville took Steven Gerrard out last season), and with three red cards and 26 bookings for United's opponents as against one and 14 for United.''
''In the 2002-03 season alone, for example, when Riley gave United seven penalties in five games, Everton's Alan Stubbs and David Weir, Liverpool's Sami Hyypia and Middlesbrough's Ugo Ehiogu were all penalised for shirt-tugs.''
This is a classic example of a favourable referee being put into place to stack the odds against Arsenal.
He was correct to give the pen, it was stone wall but that is just the tip of the iceberg, again we were not allowed to play by Villa's 3 central midfielders committing numerous low key but cynical fouls which broke up the game without the correct punishment. At one point the crowd cheered ironically as Riley pulled Barry aside after what must have been his 5th or 6th foul of the game, but instead of the delayed booking that was expected he proceeded to warn him. Farcical!
I would have had no complaints about the first goal if the ref had not stopped the game in the first half when Curtis Davies went down clearing the ball. First and foremost Davies at no time gave any impression he had a head injury, and secondly, Arsenal had the ball and Villa against the ropes. Therefore when Sagna goes down he receives the opposite treatment from Riley.
The second goal was absolutely and totally DIRECTLY down to an unbelievable refereeing decision and I defy absolutely anyone to question that. Riley was in an absolutely perfect position to see Vela get totally taken out in a very dangerous attacking position, foul? Foul? Fucking booking let alone a foul!
By the middle of the second half Mike Riley had me screaming at him in a total primal rage.
They say that the sign of Champions is a team that wins even when they play poorly and on Saturday I accept that we played poorly. But what chance do a side really have of 'winning poorly' when the pitch is tilted at such a gradient against them?
Oh and just quickly, anyone notice the sponsorship on the Premier League referee's arms?
Air Asia! What money that somewhere along the line someone gets 'complimentary flights' into the region?
Just to show this is not sour grapes I will post a qoute from a message I sent to DogFace on Friday.
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Post 21 – (1 reply)
ColonelDecker replied to DogFace's post on 17 November 2008 at 02:53
ColonelDecker
November 14 at 2:41pm
''I think the Spuds are gonna get fucked, that is the stand out mug money team this weekend for me. They have had nearly all of their games at home, since Harry took over, and a defeat could be blamed on poor away form. Draw/Fulham I fancy on that. I think the Spuds will be first on most accumulators this weekend so Mr Wiley will be as dodgy as tackling AJ in the box this week.
Punters will not be as confident with Man U after their results against us and Liverpool so Utd will walk it along with Chelsea & liverpool.
The sigh of relief I breathed when I see that we don't have Alan Wiley this week got stuck in my throat as Mike 'the conk' Riley's name came out. I fucking fear for us this weekend mate and just hoping that the money piles on the Spuds and we get a free week.
The big accumulator this week is Spuds/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal and one of us is gonna get Fucked so I wanna see laughing Spud faces and Happy Harry headlines tommorow morning and I will breathe a little easier''
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Post 22 - 2 replies
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to ColonelDecker's post on 17 November 2008 at 03:57
Decker I used some of your points in the other discussion board (where people keep blaming Wenger and our players rather than the officials) and here's the reply I got.
''At Old Trafford, Riley's record is weighted more heavily in favour of United, though that is to be expected given that they dominate more games at home. United's record is: P14 W10 D1 L3, with ten penalties for United and one against (again Liverpool were the beneficiaries, this time when Gary Neville took Steven Gerrard out last season), and with three red cards and 26 bookings for United's opponents as against one and 14 for United.''
- how many of them do any of us remember? If there is videos of each decision, then lets evaluate them because they could all be correct. Also, Vieira dived against Schalke to win a penalty. Pires against Pompey. Van Persie against Hamburg. These are on the top of my head, but dominant teams seem to get these decisions more than smaller teams. Every decision in front of the Kop in the 70's and 80's (and now actually) is given to Liverpool.
''In the 2002-03 season alone, for example, when Riley gave United seven penalties in five games, Everton's Alan Stubbs and David Weir, Liverpool's Sami Hyypia and Middlesbrough's Ugo Ehiogu were all penalised for shirt-tugs.''
- shirt tugs are actually penalties though!
Yes United get decisions in their favour, but so do all top teams. Through media influence, powerful officials in charge of these clubs, the pressure of the crowd, its something we have to accept.
"The guy is a total fucking bent cunt and he's been doing this to us for years." - apart from Rooney at OT, all of those are against other teams, not us. And for those who remember Riley games at Highbury after that game, he gave more in favour of us because he knew he totally fucked up. Im not his biggest fan, dont get me wrong, but to go around calling shenanigans makes people sound bitter.
If we could defend better last season and didnt mentally crumble after Birmingham, we would have won the league, nothing to do with refs. I know this wasnt mentioned but it was probably the next argument.
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Post 23 – (1 reply)
DogFace replied to TheTurbanator's post on 17 November 2008 at 04:52
Sam - whoever wrote that is a fucking bell-end.
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Post 24 – (2 replies)
ColonelDecker replied to TheTurbanator's post on 17 November 2008 at 04:53
I think the guy is missing the point Sam. Riley is a pro Man Utd referee and his past shows this. He is also very finicky against us and slows the play down (unless we are the ones being fouled). Therefore he was a very good ref to have in place for this game if you wanted Arsenal to fail to win.
I got back to my car on Saturday and turned on the radio to be immediatly met with the presenter welcoming on one of the many bookie spokesman on the phone and do you know what his first words were 'great day for the bookies whenever arsenal lose'.
It seems like that app is exactly the same as it was pre ASI and there are many people on here who had the same blinkered view of refereeing myself included. Unfortunately, as we know, it is totally impossible that referee's do not have a seriously major part to play in 'killing accumulators'. The top 4 are so clear of everyone else in terms of quality that it just goes against all probability that they hardly ever all win on the same weekend.
With regards to the laughable comment about the mental crumble after the Birmingham game last year, that was the very game which whole heartedly convinced me that the referee's are totally bent. I could not fathom any other explanation.
Adebayor gets clearly fouled in the box (grab on shorts) not given! Straight up the other end and clichy wins the ball to which a pen is given against us. I still believe that Gallas took himself away from the ref that day to stop him putting one on him. I know I would have. It is so common that people think this could never happen in 'our' league but when they realise that BILLIONS are wagered on the premier league each weekend in asia then it may start to open their eyes slightly.
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Post 25
DogFace wrote on 17 November 2008 at 05:05
Nice one Decker... people say it's easy to blame the Ref - but it's not.
It's much easier to blame yourself, the team, the manager as that's what everyone is telling you. You can either go with it or show some fucking character, stand up and tell it like it is.
The emperor is wearing no clothes... obvious init?
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Post 26 – (2 replies)
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to ColonelDecker's post on 17 November 2008 at 06:33
Man I let you guys read this shit. I've had enough of people blaming us for our downfall. These guys need to get their head checked.
They even blamed Bendtner for blocking the shot against Liverpool in the CL! Fucking deluded!
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Post 27
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) wrote on 17 November 2008 at 06:36
Hahaha I tried to express my points and can you believe it, some fucker is telling me that I'm clutching at straws! LOL!
Man these guys go to games, yet they can't see whats happening? Some of us are thousands of miles away yet it's clearly shown on TV!
What do we call these people? Too much love for the club that they can't see what's happening around them?
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Post 28
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) replied to TheTurbanator's post on 17 November 2008 at 07:06
too much love for a game which is no longer the game they think it is more like it
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Post 29 - (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to DogFace's post on 17 November 2008 at 09:26
Im a bellend because I dont agree with you. Great argument. Get over yourself.
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Post 30 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to TheTurbanator's post on 17 November 2008 at 09:27
I didnt blame Bendtner for getting in the way, but something like that doesn't happen and we win, no talk of conspiracies.
Next time make your own argument rather than post other people's opinions as your own. Deluded? ok.
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Post 31 – (2 replies)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to ColonelDecker's post on 17 November 2008 at 09:41
Ok forget Birmingham.
Why couldnt we beat Wigan after that? Who told Cesc and Ade to miss sitters.
Why couldnt we beat Villa at home?
Who told Gallas to handball in the box minutes after taking the lead at Old Trafford? After a blatant handball...
Why was Toure playing at right back in the biggest games of our season against Liverpool when we had a right back in Eboue playing midfield?
Im sorry but we done nothing to warrant a win vs Villa, Riley or not. We had no creativity. And do you honestly believe these teams dont try the same tactics against the other top teams? Of course they do, and it's not down to refs that they win, its their quality.
And I will actually want to debate this, rather being insulted by others just because no one believes their opinion.
And yes, im not naive to believe that there's not millions, billions even being made on football, and there might be dodginess going on. But I dont believe for 1 minute we are on the end of it just because we're not getting our way and they favour the other top teams. Sour grapes, in my opinion.
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Post 32
DogFace replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 10:32
Nope - you are a bell-end because I don't agree with you... you get the concept?
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Post 33
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 10:57
LOL HeatSeeker I never said I posted that my own. If you'd notice, I've put the dialog signs in the posts. And also, I've asked the owner of the post if I could post it.
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Post 34
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 11:04
"I didnt blame Bendtner for getting in the way, but something like that doesn't happen and we win, no talk of conspiracies."
Man didn't you see Hleb being pulled down by Kuyt? And Babbel tripped on his shoelaces? If Hleb was given a penalty, no talk of conspiracies.
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Post 35 – (1 reply)
PieFace (London) wrote on 17 November 2008 at 11:12
OK HeatSeeker, you've thrown down the debate gauntlet, let me take it up on behalf of ASI. And I promise not to call you a bell-end.
Before we get started, and just to prove to you that we're not all a bunch of conspiracy theory nutbars who don't do any research on their facts before spouting off, I invite you to look through the history of the discussion board and see what we have written in the past. If you can, focus on the debates about the Birmingham game, the Middlesboro game at home (e.g. the phantom offside and the ref's laughable explanation), the Liverpool CL game (the tale of two penalties), the Chelsea game (Drogba's offside goal). To name a few off the top of my head.
My brother DogFace's attitude is probably the most deeply entrenched on this site; others started off as saying "you're off your fucking rocker pal" but have slowly come round to the fact that all may not be wine and roses in the Premier League. I'm somewhere in the middle, not being a particularly religious perosn and therefore not inclined towards blind faith, but also not convinced that each and every kick of the game has been pre-ordained and everyone is on the payroll.
One other piece of research I invite you to look at first is the below wiki entry and its links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Serie_A_scandal
I don't have a massive amount of patience for people who stick their fingers in their ears and point-blank refuse to believe that corruption could not possibly happen in a prestigious, history-laden, honourable and noble football competition such as the Premiership. It happened in Serie A, fact - teams with just as much prestige and honour and Liverpool and Man Utd got clobbered when the dirty laundry started to come out. If it can happen in Italy, why not here? Because English refs are less corruptible that Italian refs? Greed is human nature, no matter what language you speak.
Having established a precedent, i.e some sort of proof that it can actually happen, the next analysis (or analogy) that we need to look at is this: if you flip a coin, and it keeps coming up heads, just how many times does this have to happen before you start suspecting that maybe, just maybe, it is a double-headed coin.
Of course, you can't have refs waving away penalties when our players get blatantly scythed down in the box; nor disallow goals which are scored from outside the area or where there is no hint of offside. What you can do is everso slightly tilt the odds in the favour of one team or another with selective use of the whistle or the offside flag. If the 50-50 decisions are loaded in favour of one team or the other, then quite often, it is things like this that mean the difference between a draw and a win.
We all (when I say "all", I mean everyone, no matter who they support, without exception) refer to the "Big Four" being the four teams in the Prem who can be relied upon, year after year, to occupy the top 4 places in the Prem. Why? Because they are a class apart from the other teams, over the course of a 38-game season. The stats don't lie. Even when it got a bit dicey, like when Everton pipped Liverpool to 4th place, natural order was restored when UEFA bent their own rules ot let Liverpool into the competition and Everton went out in the 1st qualifying round. Or when Spurs got the shits to ensure our safe passage. But mostly, these 4 teams are head and shoulders of a better quality than the other teams. Surely no arguments against that? OK.
So then, if they all are so much better in terms of quality, why then is it so uncommon to see all four of the top teams (apart from when they play eachother) ALL winning their games on the same weekend?
Some food for thought. I'm not giving you answers right now, I'm just inviting you to mull it over before you respond. i have a theory (involving bookies, as it happens) but I will give serious consideration to other credible theories.
You'll notice that I haven't yet commented on the Villa result. Well, let's clear that one up. As against Stoke, we were crap. SHITE. Must try harder. Whether or not we suffered 23 fouls against us, roughed up in midfield, we need to realise that this is now a well-established blueprint for "how to get a result against Arsenal" which most teams are now going to employ, with varying degrees of success. And quite often that success degree will depend on the match officials. I'm pissed off with Arsenal right now, but mainly because we keep trying to elegantly play our way out of trouble instead of fighting the system at its own game.
Now, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theory nutbar, I would invite you to consider the proposition that the refereeing display by Mike Riley might possibly have been loaded in favour of allowing Villa to get away with using hardman tactics in midfield to nullify our game and allow Villa the chance to get a result (draw or win, either/or).
For example, 23 fouls versus our 10 fouls. The fact that our two centre midfielders are yellow carded in the first 18 minutes, putting them in a little fear about giving it back and therefore sent off, whereas Barry and Sidwell committed far more niggling fouls and yet got their cards in the 55th and 90th minute respectively. Those are the stats, blink and you'll miss them - or you'll see them and dismiss them and instead say it would never have happened if we had a proper midfield general, etc. Maybe true, but such shadowy biased reffing KILLED our season last year, and it will kill it again. And when you have the likes of MOTD applauding refs for not reaching for their pocket, trotting out the usual "its a mans game, not for jessies" - then public opinion will be effectively swayed, classic misdirection, and we'll all talk about that midfield general again.
Maybe when we get that midfield general, and we still get shafted by the refs, people will change their minds.
So then - I look forward to your response. No insults from me, just reasoned debate - and please, give us the benefit of the doubt that it isn't just sour grapes on my part. If I wanted to be told that, I'd log in to the Currant Bun's discussion site.
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Post 36 – (1 reply)
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 11:16
Why shall we forget Birmingham?
We couldn't beat Wigan because as long as we are picking up points, we are threat to the Manc. Just look at our games after Man Utd has gone clear on top of the table. Look at the Reading game right after Liverpool.
Same point as above for the Villa game.
'Who told Gallas to handball' is not a valid sentence for me. Handball is unfortunate. Just like Bendtner blocked the shot from Cesc against Liverpool.
Why was Toure playing at rightback? Simple : Arsene Knows. Who are we to judge who is he to start the game with?
I agree with 'we had no creativity against Villa'. But really, don't you think Carlos Vela was fouled? We could have scored the equalizing goal.
No one insulted you. No one knew whose posts were that.
Well it's been 4 years since this has been going on. Maybe more. Yes, you say that decision do go for us, but look at the ratio. They go against us more than you can imagine. Even small decisions like a throw in could change a game.
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Post 37
DogFace wrote on 17 November 2008 at 11:55
Thanks PieFace... I would have respond but I suspect he's a troll (that and I needed to get the kids in the bath).
Anyone who comes on here with the degree of arrogance displayed and to dismiss everyone in the group with the same tired old apologist platitudes and cherry-picked negativity that we have to endure from the mainstream press - claiming that they know better that the people here who have been discussing this in detail for quite some time is, in my humble opinion, a bell-end.
Proven.
Although... it might be a cry for help - maybe the denial is so deep that his subconscious pushed him here for answers?
Also - Turbanator, thanks for pointing it out as it wound me up; anyone who opens a post with:
"Ok forget Birmingham."
Is clearly not in tune with reality... how can you just forget Birmingham, the most blatantly fixed match in the history of the EPL in which Eduardo got fucking ruined, as an inconvenient truth - The Birmingham match is what started this group. This group was started for the specific purpose that we should absolutely NOT forget Birmingham.
HeatSeeker - if you want to post here then show some fucking respect, listen and then talk - otherwise pack your bags and fuck off back to the deluded denial merchants in the main Arsenal group... you can all agree with each other about how shit Arsenal are and post your half baked 'opinions' at each other - or whatever you call them.
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Post 38 – (1 reply)
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) replied to TheTurbanator's post on 17 November 2008 at 12:14
Ok final dwelling on the Forget about Birmingham.
Well if the press can why cant we?
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Post 39 – (1 reply)
DogFace wrote on 17 November 2008 at 12:17
*waves hand*
Forget everything, blame the team - blame Wenger, he's mad! These aren't the droids you're looking for...
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Post 40 – (1 reply)
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to ChristHeartMurmur's post on 17 November 2008 at 12:22
Exactly. It's that Birmingham game that actually started this group. Yes some of us do not believe in all that conspiracies but we do speak sense.
I really can't believe how people could blame us for every lost. And on top of that, they say we have the exact mentality of Wenger. Blaming everything else rather than the team.
How could we blame the team? How much more is there to be blamed? They tried their best. I mean, it's on the fucking TV that we see our team being robbed again and again and again and people blame our players? It's disappointing.
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Post 41 – (2 replies)
MohammedsArsenal (The Indian High School) replied to TheTurbanator's post on 17 November 2008 at 12:39
Could you try and rephrase you're last words.
I mean it looks like you're saying we deserve to win all games.
Teams in general do have off-days. Lol
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Post 42
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) replied to Mohammed's post on 17 November 2008 at 12:46
I think he means to say that every single time we lose or draw people are real quick to blame the players (opposed to the general consensus that evry1 blindly blames the ref) when time and time again last season we lost matches we should have won.
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Post 43 – (1 reply)
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to Mohammed's post on 17 November 2008 at 12:46
Oh really? When do you see Man Utd have off-days for the pass 2 seasons?
Yes I've said it again and again, we do deserve to lose some games. But come the big important games, decisions start to go against us. And when certain big team (Chelsea or Man Utd) have sufficient points to get hold of the title, we are 'allowed' to play football.
If you would, check out our games after our defeat against Liverpool in CL. Check it out on last season's Season Review. I think it started with Reading's game.
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Post 44
HeatSeeker (London) replied to PieFace's post on 17 November 2008 at 13:00
Cheers PieFace, that's the sort of response I asked for and appreciate it.
Well I just had a look at a few topics (most the topics on here seem to be about match fixing to be honest) so I've got the jist of it.
And I would like to start with that I dont believe that everything is rosy in the world of football, or any sport where serious money can be made, to be honest. We've seen with a few cases in tennis already with players being suspended for betting on matches. Then there was the Davydenko enquiry after the irregular betting patterns (which he was cleared of). And like you say, Serie A. Not just now, but in 1980 too. And I come from Cyprus, I see how the top clubs are protected by officials, it's ridiculous. Most in Greece say that's the reason why Olympiakos win the league every year.
But we're being targeted because we are the 'holier than thou' club who play the best football in the world and dont bribe anyone? That I dont buy. And also because Barcelona and Man Utd probably play better football. Maybe not 'on their day', but they do on a consistent basis. Anyway, that's another story.
Last season, we got the rough end of the stick. No question. It was one after another. We cant deny that. But why? Was it to stop us in particular from winning the league and CL? Why us? Or are we targeted every single match for this? I saw your brother mention because we dont pay off officials and get involved in corruption (ironic in seeing thats how we got promoted in 1919 ahead of Sp*rs!), but where is the evidence that others do? There is none. And when did this 'anti-Arsenal' corruption start? Because we all know that in the early 2000's we did get our fair share of decisions in our favour, so if its a recent thing, then I would be interested to know when this has started.
I still believe that most of those results in the end, we could have prevented. Liverpool and Birmingham the main ones. Of course we were all seething after those games. Maybe it was just me, but I was more incensed with things like Clichy not clearing it and us failing to kill them off. And for our defending against Liverpool. It was atrocious. Lets not remember that were it not for a heroic dive by Eboue in the 2006 final we wouldn't have scored. This is why I say decisions go both for and against us and I dont like it when people turn the other cheek when it's in our favour. Such as the handball at OT last season. If we could hold on to leads, and won, wouldnt that have made us Champions? It would have, so that would have been one almighty cock up by the ref in question. Would this have been a case of 'match fixing gone wrong'?
"So then, if they all are so much better in terms of quality, why then is it so uncommon to see all four of the top teams (apart from when they play eachother) ALL winning their games on the same weekend?"
I dont know how often the top 4 win on the same weekend, but we all know that football isn't played on paper. Villa are a good team. I thought we could struggle on saturday. If they execute their game plan they are a match for anyone, seen by results in the last 2 seasons against the top 4 (4-4 at Chelsea, beating Chelsea last season too, draws vs Liverpool and unbeaten at the Emirates). Everton, Boro, Spurs, Blackburn, Bolton etc these are no mug teams, if they raise their game they can beat anyone on their day if the top 4 clubs are slightly off. So we cant say that the top 4 should always win. Even in Spain, where everyone knows Real Madrid are everyone's favourites, we see smaller clubs go to the Bernabeu and beat them in recent years.
And I do bet here and there (not so much now as im shit at it) and I can honestly say that I rarely put the top 4 to win on the same weekend. Arsenal or Liverpool would always scare me at times. But I do understand that a lot of people would put them on the accumulators, and one slip up and the bookies clean up. But wouldnt it make more sense to target United or Chelsea in order for them to slip up? Surely they are on everyone's slip and big money is put on them. Again I go back to, is it just us?
I understand you saying it cant be blatant wrong decisions, and allowing small fouls to slide without cards can affect a match, well it does. Im a bit miffed why we dont do it more. The Italians are masters of the tactical fouls. Mourinho's teams too. If only Song took out Jenas on the halfway line and took the yellow, everything may have looked different now. And spurs there's another one, no conspiracies there, we were awful again at the back. I swayed from the subject again. Anyway, what I mean is and I touched on it further up, is this every single game? Because if we perform better than we have done and put the effort in, and we win, then what happens? Is a different 'target' picked by the bookies?
And I dont listen to what the MOTD pundits and all the tabloids and what not, I try and see things from an unbiased perspective as much as possible, and I can see quite a few things wrong with the Arsenal right now. And corruption and match fixing isn't at the top of the agenda. But while I do respect another person's opinion if they put their view across correctly, like I said to that girl (i forgot her name, she posts in this group and posted in the main Arsenal group today regarding this topic), I would like to see the evidence, and until then I will always be sceptical. And im quite a cynical person anyway, so show me some and then there's a chance I could get my head around the idea.
My dad has told me many a time that football in this country is probably fixed. He's certain it happens in the lower leagues because they are easier to bribe. But then again, he's even worse at gambling then me so he might say that!
Once again, cheers for the response. I tried to stay on track as much as possible but I've been typing up work all day and im shattered and probably left things out.
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Post 45 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to DogFace's post on 17 November 2008 at 13:02
You really think highly of yourself dont you? Not sure why though. You seem to be a frustrated man constantly banging his head against the wall because no one listens to him. Im new here so maybe you have just lost your patience and cant be arsed to constantly repeat himself, I dont know.
1st of all, im not a troll. But Decker started a thread, I replied to it, and got answers, who just happened to be from people on this group. I actually accidentally stumbled across this because a friend of mine is in this group, I check out a few threads, hey presto, my response has been posted without me knowing, then I get attacked.
You then insult me because I dared disagree with these opinions. And that's all they are, opinions. If they were facts, send them to someone who can do something about it. Until then, your views are sometimes going to be disagreed with.
Show some respect? I think you might need to learn to do that 1st.
Everyone agree how shit Arsenal are? Everyone disagrees with everyone about that right now. And to be honest, we have been consistently inconsistent all season. Shocking in about half those games. We need a new DM, some more leadership, a proper defender, and a rocket up the arse of half those players because they seem to play on cruise control. Half baked opinions? Wow, and yours are what exactly? Expert opinions? Get off your high horse.
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Post 46
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) wrote on 17 November 2008 at 13:48
"You seem to be a frustrated man constantly banging his head against the wall because no one listens to him."
A bit off the mark there mate - The Face brother's opinions are amongst the most valued opinions on this discussion - and don't make a crack about brainwashin or anything - because they have good argumentation and they back up with examples.
Furthermore they pretty much go to every home game (DogFace at least) and a few away games - so they see more than us supporters abroad like me for example.
Anyway, enough about that, DogFace doesn't need me or anybody to defend him because i'm sure he's just waiting to do it himself (right?).
Your points. Let me put it this way.... in an idealized situation, when people bet wrongly, doesn't the bookie make more money? So wouldn't it be interesting, if all of a sudden, Arsenal playing in a match for which we had been written off to lose, won against the Champions?
And last season, when it was us fending off other title challengers when ManUTD came to visit, it was a draw?
I know the reasoning or at least I think I know what your reasoning is - if you look hard enough and think creatively, you can tie anything to the thing you believe in. My opinion is that a religion works in this way (but i dont want to get my hands dirty in a different topic).
I'm just gna borrow somebody elses example here because I can't come up with anything better - how many times do you have to flip a coin, which keeps coming up heads, to realise something is amiss?
Where is the line between coincidences and bad luck, and planned actions?
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Post 47 – (1 reply)
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) wrote on 17 November 2008 at 14:00
Just to clarify what I was trying to get across because i was flipping back and forth into my homework - if I were in your shoes and I came into this group - never heard of a blog called footballisfixed.blogspot.com (now non existent btw) I would think - OK it's incidental that after every major loss/draw they come on here and rant about match fixing - OF COURSE I wuold think the same thing, it sounds a bit deluded and it sounds a lot like we are blaming the problems all on the referee.
After the Serie A scandal came out in big form, I really thought matchfixing would not occur in the PL. I'm skeptical about it happening in the Dutch Eredivisie, because first of all who would give a flying fuck about the eredivisie (most people don't even know what it is) and also because it doesn't seem 'normal' at all.
But come on - how much 'bad luck' are we going to have. 'Bad luck' that we get denied a clear penalty in a tight match, 'bad luck' that the referee 'misjudges' Babel getting tackled by Toure's slipstream in the following match... 'Bad luck' that we get a yellow card for the first offense and the opponents need to kick the shit out of our players before they even get anything, 'bad luck' that the ref decides timewasting does not even warrant a yellow but complaining and acting on it warrants a red card?
I can keep going on and Yes, maybe I am just hopelessly scrambling for examples to make this argument in some faint way appear to stick.
What it all boils down to - and this is not related to above paragraphs - we created the ASI to have discussions with fans who are behind the team - even when we are shit - therefore we say 'If you post such shite as "Sack Wenger" .... ' because we got sick and tired of people hating the team one week, loving them the other, and hating them the next. We wanted real fans here, and as far as I know they seem to be the smarter ones out of the Gen Pop. So I trust that I'm not going mad because they all seem to share the ideas and opinions about matchfixing.
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Post 48 – (2 replies)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to ChristHeartMurmur's post on 17 November 2008 at 14:28
Not knocking his opinion, more of the tone. Atleast to me anyway. But its water under the bridge I dont really care, not gona get that offended about things on the internet, water under the bridge, move on. He seems like he's put a lot of effort into coming up with his argument so I wont knock it before listening to it.
Fair enough with your views mate, I've seen it a bit on here so I understand what you're saying. I wont go into it more now because im tired and I would like to hear more from PieFace.
As for this group - im in a couple of other ones where there's less people similar to this, because of overreactions after results, but you can back the team but notice the flaws too, it doesnt make you less of a fan if you mention the problems. Not saying this group is one of those where everyone thinks roses shine out our arse, I havent read more than enough to come to that conclusion, but things at the moment are not right.
The main group with 30000+, of course you get a lot who get carried away either way and it can get annoying. But you can discuss Arsenal with no problems, both positive and negatives. As for the "Sack Wenger" debate which has been coming up in blogs and discussion boards, well I dont agree with it, but he has made mistakes in the summer. And I've talked a lot about where I think our problems lie, so im not gona start again tonight, but you can understand fans' frustrations increasing.
For me the league is beyond us, and I dont think we can win the CC, we can get to the semis or the final. I do want us to treat the FA Cup more seriously this year (going to old trafford last season and spending about £90 to see Hoyte and Traore start was a slap in the face for all 9000 fans and we cant do that again). It's something we can win if treated seriously. Champions League? We need to defend a lot better to win that. We might be able to raise our game for the one off ties, but we will be exposed at the back by an English team im afraid. Then again, lets wait and see if we bring in reinforcements in January.
ANyway, you didnt ask about any of that, but I was on a role so just kept going!
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Post 49
ChristsHeartMurmur (Netherlands) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 14:50
Yea well with regards to your last statement, that's where my rant which was pretty much non-opiniated stemmed from aswell... just so bored and got nothin better to do than write about Arsenal lol.
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Post 50 – (1 reply)
HimTheManSoon (Uxbridge College) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:08
I guess you have been reading about and you must have noticed what people have been saying, which is, we didnt play well.. as a matter of fact shite, but at the same time we are ready to believe that the ref did affect the game and the result as well.
As for the summer everybody knows arsene tried his best to sign a DM like M'bia on the last day, Xabi and even gave Miniero a trial and Appiah refused. So you can see arsene efforts but all was to no avail which is normal but than he has to work from within the resources available and he has been doing that quite well, if the refs werent such an influence on the game then i think we would have had a smaller gap between us and liverpool and chelsea (to be precise 5 points off chelsea and 7 off liverpool).
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Post 51 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to HimTheManSoon's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:15
The problem I have with the summer attempted transfers was the time it took us. Diarra left in January. Flamini 7th of May. Gilberto wasn't part of the clubs plans, so we had 3 months to find someone. We shouldnt have waited until the last day in order to get someone on the cheap. I know it worked in the previous two summer windows, but we were desperate for a DM and would have like to see the club go out and force the issue.
As for working within the resources available, that is true. However, we made profit on our summer transfers, for the 2nd year running, plus there's also the money which we have set aside in the annual budget. I dont know if I believe there's £30M available (even if there is/was £30M, then that would include wages and signing on fees etc), either way there was money to go and get the player we needed earlier on. But im sure it's been discussed to death on here, I know it has been everywhere else. As for ref influences, we have been poor this season, I dont know how much closer we would have been to be honest, if at all.
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Post 52 – (1 reply)
HimTheManSoon (Uxbridge College) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:21
We have been below par no doubt about that thats why the 7 points gap between us and liverpool in the real results table and as for the summer we were ready to pay 12 odd million (probably more) for xabi alonso except liverpool werent ready to pay the odd million or 2 more to buy Barry and that was the only thing stopping us from buying alonso...
By resources i meant the players available to arsene this is after the transfer market flop...
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Post 53 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to HimTheManSoon's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:28
Yeah, there's nothing we can do about that until January so we just have to make do. I dont think Arsene believes that he has the right players, he's said a few times we need another body or two, but he's not going to come out and say the squad isn't good enough every week after a draw or defeat.
Thing is we're not far off, probably 2-3 good, experienced seasoned pros away from a squad good enough to challenge on all fronts. I dont mean Essien, Vidic and Ronaldo type players either, just some experienced players between 25-27 years old. Thing is, im not sure who exactly I would get.
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Post 54 – (2 replies)
HimTheManSoon (Uxbridge College) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:32
well getting quality players who are 27 is difficult you see because managers will be reluctant to sell his players in their prime unless we offload a barrel load of cash....
if there is any suggestion it should be cana and or toure but we dont need two midfielders all we need is one midfielder and one winger and as for an experienced winger arango would be too bad although he is a bit slow and us talkin players is usually useless we should leave that to arsene while we concentrate on our bit which is supporting the team...
I read your 90 pound comment... and id like to say do u even remember why traore and hoyte were playing... it was because clichy was injured even than on the bench and sagna brother passed away....
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Post 55
HeatSeeker (London) replied to HimTheManSoon's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:37
Yeah I know, its not as if I have any answers on who we could get on our budget, you would hope the network of scouts would do that.
Yeah I've heard about Cana for a while, but I dont watch much (well, any) of Ligue 1 and im not gona judge him on a few CL games a season. Yaya I dont know. I watch Barca every week and he does make some errors, but he is intelligent and maybe the type of player we need because he's not just a DM who makes tackles, he can pass and play a bit. I do think another winger is needed, but a centre back for me too. Definitely. Maybe if we ask nicely, United will let us take Vidic or Rio.
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Post 56 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to HimTheManSoon's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:40
Hmmmm, Clichy had a knock and didnt want to be risked with Milan, so was on the bench. Sagna you're right, his brother passed away. Cant remember if Eboue played. No wait, he did, and got sent off!
Only thing I found annoying was players like Ade, Flamini and Clichy were on the bench and brought on later in the game with the game over. Would have liked to either see them start and taken off, or not risked at all.
It's all hindsight really, if we had lost to Milan and they played, maybe we would have queried why they played in the cup if they had knocks? Regardless of that, this year I think we should go for it more, these players are highly paid to play a lot of games. Its still prestigious on my eyes, and would love a trip to Wembley again.
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Post 57 – (1 reply)
HimTheManSoon (Uxbridge College) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:44
everyone would like a trip to wembley but surely you dont want us to win the carling cup over the ECL im hoping not anyway i think the united game was always one which i had doubts over from the moment we drew them i lost money that day i have am bitter about it but i doubt ill complain albeit it was my mistake....as for the benched player i think they all had knocks and he didnt have much of a choice but to bring them on...
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Post 58 – (2 replies)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to HimTheManSoon's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:47
Haha, no not at all. Although I think we will get found out defensively in the CL. In 2006 we got to the final on the back of clean sheets, I struggle to see us getting them this year, even against lower premiership clubs.
Well, let's just see how the season unfolds, the next 7 weeks up until January will tell us a lot.
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Post 59
HimTheManSoon (Uxbridge College) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 15:49
hopefully all positive and hopefully the refs wont keep a site on us...
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Post 60
The12thMan (Ramapo) replied to HeatSeeker's post on 17 November 2008 at 22:34
just like wenger said.. there are only so many quality players available for the right price.. you can't just buy whoever you want because you have money.. real madrid found that out this summer. would you pay thousands for a box of cornflakes at a restaurant if you just had to wait a little longer to have them when you got home? you must be reasonable
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Post 61
KeepTheFaith (London) wrote 23 hours ago
Well this has sparked a not to freindly debate hasn't it! I have to start coming on here at night again I miss out on all the good shit.
I like you HeatSeeker was blinkered in my views about match fixing, we were top of the league, doing well in the champions league and then everything crashed and burned around us.
The fact that we have had so many bad decisions against us is neither here or there, it is just that, fact - you just have to look at replays of any of the 3 major penalty decisions against us Clichy vs Brum, Kuyt in the CL and Babel in the return leg.
All these decisions are meant to (as the fucking same pundits that are being paid off by bookies keep telling us) even themselves out, excuse me? Can you name one instance in the last 6 months where we have had the rub of the green on a penalty decison? Or a dodgy sending off in our favour? Can you bollocks 'cos it just doesn't happen!
These are the obvious circumstances - now to the real nitty gritty, the stuff you have to look for alot harder, the stats... Against Villa we were constantly fouled by the same 3 players (Barry,Sidwell,Petrov) and they were constantly allowed to get away with it, to the point where all of us in the stadium ironically cheered when Barry was called over by Riley for what we thought was going to be a deserved booking for around is 5th foul of the game and Riley gave a warning!
Yes as you say we didn't create anything, but how can a team who is famous for their passing and neat one-two football create anything when they are being stopped every other minute of the game from fouls by said players. They are fully intitled to do this but if the ref was going by the letter of the law then one,two or all three may have been sent off, and footballers aren't as stupid as people make out, if they see they are getting away scot free with breaking up the play then they are going to do it even more!
The worst example of this recently was against Stoke, they are a nasty dirty side without the same class as Villa and 2 or 3 of their challenges could have been straight red cards and some didn't even get booked, as Wenger said himself how Andy Griffin escaped an early bath is laughable let alone a fucking yellow card - inexcusable.
I'm a bit like PieFace in the fact that I dont believe that everything is fixed but to see match fixing scandals in Seria A and as you mentioned in Tennis, the Hansje Kronje scandal in Cricket to name but a few, and then to think 'oh it cant happen in England' is very very naive, just try watching the football with the sound down once in a while.
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Post 62 – (1 reply)
DogFace replied to HeatSeeker's post 23 hours ago
HeatSeeker,
You attacked us - I am not 'on a high horse' but the fact is that you burst in here to defend a scrap of bullshit that you call an opinion as if we had just wanked on the bible. You call us delusional and dismiss our reasoned, insightful and intelligent arguments as to the state of English football and how it is affecting the club we support as 'sour grapes'. You state that you can use your myopic understanding of the game (that comes straight out of the pages of Roy of the Rovers) to 'poo poo' our arguments away.
I don't believe in god - but I don't burst into a church on a Sunday morning and quoute Nietzsche to the congregation... although I admit that it would be funny as a 'Troll' thing to do.
BTW - 'your response' is just the same old shit we hear day in day out i.e. it's nothing personal - Sam could have randomly picked from any post to get the same blanket opinion of internalised blame that the fans seem to saddle themselves with.
And I should 'get over myself'?
My reaction was in the context that:
a) I don't suffer fools gladly
b) Members of the group expected me and other key members to react
We have shown you every fucking respect by not deleting your posts and banning you... and BTW - I save my respect for the people that earn it. You seem to be confusing the definition of 'respect' with the twisted version as translated by the PGMOB's 'respect' campaign... I would venture to say that respect is a concept that you need to work on.
Yes my opinions are expert opinions - if you are willing to explore this subject a little further I can send you some links to literature written by investigative journalists and insiders who care more about the game as a sport rather than a money spinner.
If you knew just how corrupt this game had become it would make your eyes pop out of your head.
For instance - with regards to an 'experienced' DM; we didn't sign Appiah because it came to light that he fixed games for Ghana in the world cup - he has admitted this in a recorded telephone conversation:
http://www.howtofixasoccergame.com/blog/?tag=stephen-appiah
Surprised? What – you're wondering how and why you never heard of this before? I mean - this is important and newsworthy stuff right?
If you would like something a little more baked to back up my views... well - how about mathematics? Last season we got 12+ back to back key decisions go against us that effectively decided our season - these decisions were all incorrect.
Let's 'assume' conservatively that is was 12 major decisions and that these were 50/50 and do the maths:
2^12 = 4096
So that's odds of 4096/1... it all evens up right? Now consider that this has happened 3 seasons running and it's happening again this season? What are the odds?
Go ask a bookie - as they are the ones making money from it... you complain that all the clubs have this and wonder how it could be that Arsenal are targeted?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/nov/07/premierleague-arsenal
This is not a conspiracy - it is a cartel - the other big clubs are all involved in the murky shenanigans of match fixing and bribery... why did you think all there billionaires want a slice of the Premiership anyway? As a hobby? Arsenal get shat on by default as we are not a 'power club'.
There is a gambling liquidity of £2,000,000,000 available in the Asian black markets on every weekend premiership round of matches... some games alone attract £500,000,000. None of this industry is regulated.
The rabbit hole goes deep HeatSeeker - you can pretend it's not there and blame it on the lack of a good DM or you can open your eyes and see the bigger picture.
As for the game at the weekend... the way I saw it was Riley didn't give us anything - he let them constantly get away with the foul in the midfield play and carded both our central mids to take them out of the challenge - this forced us to go more route 1 - a play that we are not used to and make us look like we are shit, but what are the options when the game is bent?
The reaction from the fans - well some could see it but some could not. There were constant anti-ref chants all game. Our players are good - the best team players there are and when we are allowed to play we can beat anyone when we are not... well - they are still only human - not superhuman.
BTW - PieFace is good cop - I'm bad cop... I care less for you bruised ego and apart from the fact that we are brothers - you cannot 'divide and conquer' here.
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Post 63
HeatSeeker (London) replied to DogFace's post 22 hours ago
Ok, it doesnt bother me the whole 'bellend', 'respect' thing, I've been called at lot worse on the internetz, im sure you have too, ok move on to the point in hand cos that's boring.
Yeah I read that Appiah interview a month or so ago, it was posted on the other Arsenal group and I think another couple of blogs. That doesnt surprise me. I dont have a blinkered view on life, despite what you think my argument is. Im certain that players around the world get approached all the time, especially those who are lower paid. Match fixing is rife in Eastern Europe, I've seen decisions in some matches that beggar belief.
And again, I know plenty went against us last season, but have you investigated every match and every team in the top flight for the last 3-4 years? And I mean properly, i.e. the way people have been attacking Riley for allowing the 'smaller' fouls slide. Because if you have, that is a lot of football you have been watching! Point being, every small decision would affect the match in one way or another, and im sure there are other teams suffering because of referees, but on a consistent basis? That is something I cant answer because I dont watch every match of every season, and im sure you dont either.
I mean, Emerson Boyce on the weekend getting sent off for that, I mean, that was horrendous. Is that due to 'match fixing' or because the standard of refereeing in this country is getting worse by the year? Which it is by the way (video technology and retrospective punishment for cheats would help, as would FIFA and the FA changing certain laws). In another group, someone said Spurs have suffered over the years because of this alleged match fixing. And when you speak to fans of other clubs, even Chelsea and United, they all feel the refs and the FA are against them (hard as that is to believe), the majority of fans feel aggrieved by decisions going against them.
Also, the link you sent me doesn't divulge further into this, it just mentions that the bookies have made money on Arsenal. The bookies probably cleaned up as well when Spurs got a draw at the Bridge, or Burnley too, or Newcastle drawing at Old Trafford, Stoke at Anfield etc.
Look, im not just rubbishing your claims without hearing the story, but my argument elsewhere wasn't exactly met with reasoned, in-depth responses, so it sounded like toys were thrown out the pram cos we didnt get our way. I've heard all those Talksport arguments about refs being crap etc and that is what it sounded like.
Also, were these problems going on when we were the Invincibles? I mean were we the easy targets then because you say it has been 3 seasons running, 3 seasons since we haven't won anything. Surely this isn't the reason why we have not been winning? Not saying that's your argument, but this is what it seems like without backed up claims. So I would like to see some of the other links you have. And over the years, we dont have to ask other fans' opinions on decisions Arsenal have had in our favour, especially when we were dominant. Graham Poll seemed to suck us off for a couple of seasons, especially Thierry. I know we had plenty of reds in the past, but we had our fair share of dodgy free kicks and penalties to even things up.
Just one last thing - the whole 'get over yourself thing' was due to reading through past topics and seeing you portray your argument as in 'those who see it are intelligent, those who don't are blinkered/deluded', sounded pretty arrogant to me. Anyway, I will give your links a look and will read them with an open mind (please dont throw me in the 'pundits' bracket because everything they say, especially the likes of Mr Hansen/Lawrenson/Redknapp/Wright et all is a load of bollocks), because I am interested in seeing what's being said.
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Post 64 – (1 reply)
DogFace wrote 22 hours ago
Lol... yes - I have been called a lot of things - thanks for moving on. I admit that I am very stubborn - especially when I know I'm right and everyone is telling me that I'm wrong!
Some call this arrogance but I prefer to call it 'character' - going against popular opinion is a very hard path to take - so you have to get in peoples hostile little faces a bit just to make your point... it's a mechanism that works.
:-D
You mention the Invincibles... well - that's where the trouble started. The Premiership has been getting worse year on year with the rise on the Asian match fixers targeting European football. The Invincibles run of games straddled that change (and incidentally cost the bookies a packet) - let's look back and remember where match fixing was during the invincibles:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3944123.stm
Oh shit - there it is right there! And who was the bastard in the black for that game?
None other than Mike Riley himself... which brings us full circle in this debate.
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Post 65 - 1 reply
PieFace (London) wrote 21 hours ago
I'll now respond in my 'good cop' fashion - I'm all up for a good debate and there have been plenty of people who have started out on this site stubbornly refusing to believe that Arsenal are being targeted by the powers-that-be. For the record, I'm not hell-bent on changing your mind, however I am trying to persuade you to open your mind - nothing more.
Last season, Arsenal were away and flying, and everything fell apart after the Birmingham game. You can really point to just a few fixtures that determined our season - that is all it takes. The refs will NOT always be out to screw us, because to do so means that people start to suddenly stop and point and say "hang about - this emporor with his new clothes - he's actually stark bollock naked isn't he?". If there really were men in the shadows trying to influence results in the EPL, then it simply won't do to kill the golden goose that is laying all the golden eggs. There must be subtlety, or the whole show comes crashing round everyone's ears.
The Saturday before last, at the Man Utd game, the only thing more depressing than being absolutely pissed on (literally - I'm not talking about Arsenal being outplayed by Man utd, I'm talking about me and DogFace getting soaked to the skin by stair-rod rain in row 3) was witnessing the refereeing display of Mr Howard Webb, who seemed IMHO to be giving Man Utd every chance to win the game. If he had disallowed either of Nasri's goals for some reason (e.g. "I saw a push in the build up") then he would have looked like the proverbial snake in the jam jar and the golden goose might have been on the chopping block. However, what he did get away with was a constant steam of decision in Utd's favour, coupled with turning down a stonewall penalty on Van Persie right in front of our very outraged eyes. And at the end of the game, 6 minutes injury time. Every Arsenal fan in the ground was thinking "Oh Christ no, not Spurs again" because once again it appeared that the match officials were giving the opposition ever chance to snatch a draw.
I hear that the ref may have missed a Clichy handball. Fegie made mention of that in his post-match interview however I don;t remember seeing the Utd fans or players incensed at a bad decision once in that game - though admittedly I did leave my seat just before the half time whistle to wring my jeans out before the rush. If anyone has got the link of this I'd like to see it, because if so, it means Howie may have missed a nailed-on opportunity.
Lets talk now about those 6 minutes. Added time at the end of a game - it can be so beautifully arbitrary for the bookies. Spurs got 4 minutes to make their unlikley comeback, even though there had not been a single injury throughout the previous 45 mninutes. It is a CLASSIC shadowy official decision that is very hard to pin down blame for. Add up each second that it took to get the ball back from the crowd, or for a player to get subbed, then maybe Spurs might have accrued 3 minutes (I wouldn't mind getting hold of the Spuds laughable commemorative DVD, just to get the chance to do this). Almunia did get a kick to the head and it did take him a few minutes to cart him off the pitch. However, six minutes is by any interpretation a *lot* of added time and no-one would have been shocked if 4 minutes had been shown - does anyone eally keep tabs? Is the 4th official ever really audited?
It does not detract from the fact that Arsenal were not good enough to hold onto their 2 goal lead against Spurs, for which we can rightly criticise the players - or that we nearly screwed the pooch against the Mancs, but this time perhaps lessons had been learned and we clung on. These are problems that must be addressed. However, if we ignore the fact that the odds were tilted against us, just because we won, then we are missing something pretty major. Webb was a wanker, did what he could to deny us the win, looked like he was playing for the draw, but on this occasion it didn't happen. Against Spurs, we dropped two valuable points, for two reasons: (a) they were given the time to complete thier colmeback; AND (b) we were not strong enough or savvy enough to shut them out in injury time. It is a plain fact that both these factors were present; anyone who argues that one of them wasn't important is blind to the facts. Us being nervy wouldn't have affected the result if the 4th official hadn't maximised or inflated the injury time. And the maximised injury time wouldn't have affected the result if the players hadn't lost their heads.
Look at the Boro game last season. So close to an exposure of the ref's cheating but conveniently explained away. I sense that the media bang on about the Birmingham match so much to deflect away from the fact that the Boro game was by far the most dodgy. Ade's goal was disallowed for offside and the ref, trying to avoid looking like his eyesight was crap, states post-match that he SAW that it was Boateng who played he ball through to Ade, however if it had been RVP who had played it through as he attempted, then Ade would have been offisde. Therefore, guilty of "attempted offside". Just like murder and attempted murder are both crimes, right? No mate, wrong! By trying not to look blind, instead, you only look like a fool - or a cheat. The offside rule makes no provision for attempted offside. So you're either an idiot, or a cheat. Which? How the hell this game got skated over on the media, (plus the fact that Aliaidiere was offside - a two goal swing which turned a home win into a draw), is absolutely beyond me. This, and the Birmingham game on thier own, denied us 4 extra points which would have put us level on points with Man Utd at the end of the season. This would have made the Old Trafford game and the end of season run in a lot more interesting.
I'm not even going to talk about the ECL semi v Liverpool as anyone with a pair of eyes in their head can see we were robbed blind by the ref.
The coin keeps landing heads. It is ludicrous that I should be looking out each game to see who the ref is, and hoping it's not the likes of Riley or Wiley, but I am. I don't even know who the 4th officials are, but they don't seem to be doing us any favours. I'm now well beyond the point of putting these things down to coincidence, and I don't need to pore through the books to read about match-influencing because I can see it right in front of me.
Next week the fixtures are:
Chelsea v Newcastle
Liverpool v Fulham
Man City v Arsenal
Villa v Man Utd
I'm going to be brave and predict that Chelsea will beat Newcastle and Liverpool will beat Fulham, two sides that can't buy an away win this season and they aren't going to start against the top two.
That's tough shit for one of either Arsenal or Man Utd. Villa however seem to have an almost pathological fear of Man Utd, and can't stop losing to them home or away. They will be favorites, however this is the Setanta live game and therefore there will be more money flung on it as a single game (non-accumulator) which could work in Arsenal's favour.
However I think the safe money is on wins for the other Big Four teams and Arsenal to lose to, or get a 'credible' draw against, a Man City team that, by any punter's standards has "good players" and are "no mugs" and therefore no-one will suspect anything is amiss when the results come in. And if these a dodgy offside decision, a debatable penalty, a few extra minutes of injury time, some lenient refereeing of foul play - then hey so be it.
Pessimistic or realistic? Wrong, I hope, but Saturday will be the judge of that. If Arsenal do bounce back with an away win (which, on form and paper, we bloody well should) - watch out for a draw at Villa Park.
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Post 66 – (1 reply)
MohammedsArsenal (The Indian High School) replied to TheTurbanator's post 20 hours ago
Like last season when they got beat by bolton or when they drew to portsmouth last season. They drew to a few teams as well today.
What I meant to say is.....any team could have an off-day.
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Post 67 – (1 reply)
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to Mohammed's post 20 hours ago
Any team could have an off-day, yes. But how many teams have an off-day like us?
Stoke for example. Compare the fouls. We did less fouls than them and yet we received more cards early in the game. Same thing like Villa.
Someone pointed out in this topic that 2 of our central midfielders got booked by 18th minute, thus reducing our chances of being aggressive and going in hard to win the ball. Meanwhile Barry, Petrov and another guy only got booked after 80th minute. Barry received his 4th or 5th warning from Riley.
What does that say? It says that they are allowed to kick us around the field and escape bookings.
I suggest you take a closer look on our games after this. Then you'd notice how fucked up it is.
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Post 68 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) wrote 20 hours ago
Well I just wrote one of the longest replies ever, and FB fucked up. I am actually seething. Let's start again...
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Post 69 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to DogFace's post 20 hours ago
You wont hear me complain about that game. *The* worst refereeing display ever, and I've been to plenty of Sunday league games.
Right, now to try and remember what I wrote to your brother, jesus wept I hate FB so much right now.....
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Post 70 – (1 reply)
MohammedsArsenal (The Indian High School) replied to TheTurbanator's post 20 hours ago
Paaji! Please! :P
Lol I fully understand the theory's presented in the other board and yes I do agree with them.
But all I said was that any team could have an off day. I didn't specifically mention whether it was national or club, Serie A or La Liga, League or CL etc.
Which u agreed with lol.
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Post 71 – (1 reply)
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to HeatSeeker's post 20 hours ago
Man, next time copy your post before you click 'post reply'. Happens to me way too many times.
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Post 72
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to Mohammed's post 20 hours ago
Blahhh!! I know I went abroad but I can't be arsed to edit my post. :P
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Post 73 – (2 replies)
DogFace replied to HeatSeeker's post19 hours ago
I usually write in MS Word so I can spell check it as my spelling is so bad (that autosaves even if the computer crashes).
:-)
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Post 74 – (2 replies)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to PieFace's post 19 hours ago
Yeah, I understand that the refs in this country cant behave like African or 3rd division Colombian refs, otherwise the game is up, that I understand, in any sport really. It's why I felt for Nikolay Davydenko in the Paris Masters last year (after the revelations of one of his matches being investigated) when the umpire tried to give him, a top 5 player, advice on how to serve because he was throwing in so many double faults. I very much doubt someone being investigated for match fixing would then play one of the top events of the year and throw the match the same way a 5 year old would. I saw the game live and he was mentally crumbling infront of the world, and he's being given advice by a fat umpire!
So I understand we are looking at more 'debatable' decisions which can be argued, rather than blatant penalties or red cards being given (for the record, the penalty Blackburn got at West Brom last week was a scandal, as was Boyce's red card at Newcastle and those were ).
Ok, I disagree about the United game. I say this because I wasn't there (gutted, booked a week in Cyprus to watch Anorthosis/Inter, then couldnt change the coming back date) and I do understand that game was emotionally exhausting, and many left the game talking about the ref, amongst other things. My brother at the game said that everyone was having a go at the ref, even at blatant fouls from us. But you already bring up the Clichy handball, and it was a blatant penalty. I know he then 'evened' it up with not giving us a pen for the Nasri tug, but it was something I didnt dwell on because he missed two stone wallers (I know two wrongs dont make a right, but seeing as I thought the Clichy one was more of a pen, it didnt bother me. That, and cos we won).
Also, we also got one of those debatable decisions in our favour for the free kick for our 1st goal. Sagna 'won' that free kick and in my opinion it was one of those that easily not have been given. It's one of those small decisions which we are arguing didnt go our way on Saturday. And the Manchester United fan I was watching it with also happens to be a professional footballer in Cyprus, and he laughed because he talks about 'making the most' of fouls all the time (he keeps diving on the new Pro Evo and then saying its part of the game, the wanker), and how if you dont, you might not get decisions. He praised Sagna for that.
As for the injury time, I think 6 minutes was correct. Isn't it an unwritten rule (may be a real rule, checked google but found nothing) that you add 30 seconds from substitutions for injury time? If so, there were 6 subs, which is already 3 minutes, along with the Almunia injury then I think 6 was correct. Fergie wanted 7!
Against Spurs, again 6 subs were made which is another 3 minutes. I thought at the time it should have been 3, to be honest. The rest of those 4 minutes is now a blur... However, also looking at the game, we have a 'Vela' situation with a foul in the build up, or alleged foul (I didnt see the replay of the Vela incident and forgot MotD started early this saturday, due to watching the X Factor results) with Bentley:
"Spurs felt Bentley had been fouled by Fabregas in the lead up to an Arsenal corner" - this is from the bbc match report.
As for 4th officials, they are useless. They do nothing except look pretty on the sidelines telling managers not to leave their box. Why they are not used more to help refs I will never know. I went, and watched, my 1st NFL game last month at Wembley. I barely understood anything, but what I found interesting was all the officials involved, all looking out for different things, and then 'flagging' fouls, offsides whatever. Each had a certain job to do, surely the 4th official can do something. But the FA and FIFA will never pull their fingers out.
As for the Boro game, agree, the 1st decision not to allow us a goal was pathetic. I remember sitting there on the halfway line, you didnt even have to be in line, to see it was a definite goal. Then the texts came in "we've been robbed again", "the lino's a nobhead", "haha, you gooner scum". I get the last one a lot, sometimes even when there's no game. As for Aliaiaiaiaiaidiere's goal, I honestly cant remember *how* offside he was. Not that it makes a different in the letter of the law, but I like to see benefit of the doubt given to the forward, any forward of any team, so to argue it was offside if it was an inch offside when I honestly dont remember would make me look like a hypocrite. However, in that game, we also had another 'Vela' moment involving our equaliser -
"Wenger claimed the "decisions didn't go for us", it was a half-hearted moan and one that ignored the fact that George Boateng, the game's outstanding player, had been fouled in the build-up to Arsenal's equaliser."
By the way I didnt go looking for little clips like that from these match reports! Just checked other details and came across them but thought they were valid here.
You wont hear me argue about decisions from last season, its all been discussed and we saw with our own eyes. I prefer to look at things which a person or a team can do to prevent negative situations, that's just me because especially with last season's team, i felt we had the quality there (maybe just lacked the squad depth to hang on after Sick Roy and Eddie succumbed), but as for the mistakes made by refs? No arguments.
But I dont think that we get totally crapped on, especially in the case of the so-called 'smaller' decisions which I do agree sway the influence of the match, as seen in the aforementioned games with refs allowing play to continue which allowed us to score twice.
As for these weekend games, the 1st two are home bankers. Fulham might put up a fight for a while, but Liverpool are looking good in the league, despite being wasteful and leaving it late all the time.
Us and United? Well, these are two games that possibly both could slip up in. I think we will win. I hope. Ramsey deserves a start. I dont think City have that physical nature to them to try and rough us up, so I'll go out on a limb and say that wont be a factor. As for everything else, let's wait and see. If all 4 win, it wont be surprising, but 1 draw could be lurking.
However, the last line I find interesting. "Watch out for a draw at Villa Park" - does this mean that United games are picked as well, because then the discussion goes from 'Arsenal being targeted' to just football in general. You see, the bit which I dont believe (at the moment anyway, like I said elsewhere, I do try and approach things with an open mind) is that we are the only ones being targeted in this. I wish I had the time or desire to go through games from the last 3 years, but I really really dont! That and its cwork deadline week and I'm doing this instead.
Maybe one day, the truth shall set us free. Serie A has been exposed, Marseille in the early 90's as well, so it can be done on a high profile stage, but im not so sure. I hope if anything untoward is happening in our game and affecting us especially, that something comes from it. (Maybe we can add a few cheap titles to our collection like Inter did)
What I do believe, and everyone will agree, is that the influx of money, and dodgy Thai and Russian money in our game, in the game of football in general, is ruining the game, one way or another. Through media biased campaigns in support or against certain people/teams, alienating real fans from the club they love, the corporate greed, I could go on. And I for one dont believe football hasn't been exploited by the gambling cartels. Where there is money, there is corruption. By how much, and what teams, and what officials - I dont know, and therein my scepticism still lies.
Well.... I actually wrote a bit more last time, but I cant remember where and what points I made. I felt like crying when the "error" sign came up, so this will have to do. Apologies for any rambling, its been a long day.
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Post 75 – (1 reply)
HeatSeeker (London) replied to TheTurbanator's post 19 hours ago
I usually do, like a penis I didnt this time.
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Post 76
HeatSeeker (London) replied to DogFace's post 19 hours ago
I actually just put it in MS Word the 2nd time of asking, but that's half hour of my life im not getting back.
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Post 77
PieFace (London) replied to HeatSeeker's post 18 hours ago
Lots of good points well made.
Have already spent a fair bit of work time on FB today (not as much as you it seems ... nightmare ... I always highlight and copy as I go) so can't rattle on too much. However one thing I will pick up in yes, you are correct in that I am positive that the corruption which exists doesn't target Arsenal and Arsenal alone. Chelsea's win against Man Utd in the closing stages of last season was very shammy (how very convenient to keep the title race alive and the mug mone flooding into the bookies). The money men don't care which club they shaft, provided that more oftn than not, they load the dice to ensure that they get the right result for them more often than getting the wrong result for them = makes money.
The reason I think that Arsenal are an EASIER target is because of the way that they set their stall out. We are not a dirty team, not are we overly-physical. Our game plan relies on Nasri and Walcott running at players, not bundling them off the ball and hoofing it into the box. Pass and move football is highly effective when it is allowed to happen (nto to mention pleasing on the eye) but we have nowhere to go when the play is broken up by both fair means AND foul, but the fouls go unpunished.
Every team that comes to the Grove, will be told by their manager: "Don't let them settle or they'll play you off the park. Go in hard, and do it right from the off. There's a good chance that you'll get away with it." The lower teams will do this both home and away. Martin Taylor very nearly did get away with it last season, unfortunately the side effect of his pre-match instructions was to nearly ruin a fellow professional's career.
When you have a team of shitkickers, plus a ref that allows them to kick the shit out of us (e.g. Stoke match), then you have a very effective plan of attack to tip the balance in favour of Arsenal either losing or drawing. And when the ref IS inclined to punish Arsenal for giving it back early on (e.g. Cesc and Den both getting their yellow cards nice and early on Saturday), the midfield battle take a significant turn. Neither of them can go in hard any more because the ref is card happy and will result in a red.
It won't always work though, say if we score first from a set piece - then, the other team gets nowhere by just hoofing us around, then THEY have to score. Vary rarely does a team come from behind to beat us, because we have the ability to revert to sit and counter-attack when exposed. Hull is the only example I can remember in recent memory.
Like it or not, we have to believe that when we take to the pitch we are playing 12 men not 11, though it may not be the case. History has demonstrated however that Arsenal are the favourite team to be the accumulator-buster, and I think it is because of the reasons above. It's a fookin' man's game. Get up ya frog bastad. And so on. But when we do win (as of course we do, and will continue to do), there needs to be some way of breaking the Big 4 accumulator.
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Post 78 – (1 reply)
KeepTheFaith (London) replied to HeatSeeker's post 18 hours ago
All the teams in the top 4 have been targeted at one time or another, Tottenham get alot of dodgy decisions too, I'm just going by what I read on different sites but the reason we get picked on more than the rest is because no one takes a dive in our games.
What links Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd? They are all owned by rich foreign investors, whereas our club have flatly refused to sell to Kroenke or Usmanov, what do you think Peter Hill-Wood meant by not wanting your sort around here? He certainly didn't mean Americans, why do you think they wanna get their greedy fat fingers in the Arsenal pie? It certainly isn't because they have supported us since they were lads, is because they can see the riches to be had in the illegal betting markets, this is another reason why we get shat upon from a great height more than any of the others.
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Post 79 – (1 reply)
DogFace replied to KeepTheFaith's post 17 hours ago
Actually - since 'Arry took over; Tottenham have got more decisions in their favour than any other club!
It's not a simple equation - it's back scratching, favours for favours deals and fixes being brokered between the various power houses. There is not one bloke in a big wingback chair stroking a white cat plotting our downfall.
Some clubs will throw games on purpose... as I said £2,000,000,000 is up for grabs every w/e. But these clubs need to establish their targets in the league and cup competitions. For instance Liverpool want to win the league at all costs - as do Chelsea - this means that games can be fixed in the run of form in their interests... lower risk, lower gain.
If Liverpool and Chelsea both came to the agreement to chuck a match then the gains could be that much more... if one of them got out bid/thought by a competitor, you could see it as an opportunity for the other team to go against the odds while still remaining in title contention.
You can never assume anything - just weigh up the agendas as best you can.
Arsenal has not indulged in these 'creative' revenue streams and therefore we have to be forced into compliance by the 'cartel' of interested parties via the refs... I do believe that some of our players have been 'got to' in the past but Wenger is quite sharp at spotting it and moves them on.
I am of the unpopular opinion that Man-u threw their match against us rather than Webb being out to get us - they could have won easily if Webb had been on side as we had a weakened team.
As for City - well they are an up-and-coming powerhouse of a team... but - it seems obvious that they want rid of Hughes so he'll get no 'external' support to engineer consent in the fans for his dismissal. So - not sure which way that game will go (espesh as we have Chelsea away after that and City have Man U) - probably a draw then.
If you really want to know if the Big-4 multiple is going to be scuppered you will see it being pushed by the bookies - otherwise it will disappear from the options - or the odds reduced to make it unattractive.
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Post 80
KeepTheFaith (London) replied to DogFace's post 16 hours ago
I agree with you on the United game, if you remember one of the 1st things I said to you when I found you in the crowd was Rooney,Berbatov and Ronaldo didn't seem to be trying.
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Post 81
TheTurbanator (Malaysia) replied to your post16 hours ago
Even Firefox has spell check, but it doesn't has autosave though.
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Post 82
ColonelDecker replied to HeatSeeker's post16 hours ago
HeatSeeker,
Just a couple of things to think about, and try not to think off these as questions you need to answer or proofs which you need to counter prove. They are just possibilities which may show themselves over the next few weeks as you watch games with different consideration.
I am not interested in the decisions which referee's make which are up for debate i.e Sagna's free kick vs Man Utd. Those type of decisions are totally open to debate and the referee may 'take a view' on them. The decisions you need to watch out for are the ones where there is absolutely no topic for debate. The ones they see but choose not too (Vela on Saturday, Adebayor Vs Birmingham last year) or the decisions that are not there at all (Boateng playing the ball to Adebayor yet it is called offside).
something also to consider. The referee's in the premier league are given game after game where they continue to make a huge amount of incorrect major decisions. However they continue be part of the panel? I do not know of any other sport which allows this.
A great example is the Middlesborough game last year when Mark Halsey gave the 'phantom offside' then explained it was RVP's 'intention' to play the pass. This is the biggest amount of bullshit I have ever heard and more importantly showed that he does not know the offside rule. Now if any other referee or umpire in any sport made a rick like that would they continue to be allowed to do their job? No!
So why is the referee's association such a close knit community who distance themselves from the rest of the sport not letting anyone in?
Also I don't think anyone thinks that we are the only team which falls foul of this corruption, far from it. Nobody will say it happens every game either because thinking about it that would be stupid to do because then nobody would be confident to put Arsenal into an accumulator.
I personally beleive that we are gonna have a little run now and set free to play for a little while because from the bookies point of view Arsenals 'consumer confidence' will be at an all time low. ''Can't trust Arsenal to win at home so they're not going on my accumulator'' will be the thoughts running through many a punters mind right now.
The top four will all win sometimes but that is just the bookies speculating to accumulate, take a small hit one week in order to rake it in for the next three.
I think I can speak for everyone when I say that we do not want the referee's to ever turn in our favour, we just want them to be fair. We want them to be human & make honest mistakes as it makes it interesting sometimes, but it is that very characteristic of humanity which they use as an excuse to royally fuck us when it suits them.
Take a look at the media over the next few weeks also. Try not to read it to as what it is saying, but what it is trying to make you believe. The more widespread the rag the dumber it generally becomes. I understand they have to sensationalise to sell but I also understand when a story has absolutely no relevance and is just there to make me think about spawning my hard earned cash.
Like I said, it's not a competition. Just a request to look at things little more open minded then come back and see if you feel the same way.
P.S Never forget the Birmingham game (it's like the holocaust on this group)
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Post 83 – (2 replies)
HeatSeeker (London) wrote12 hours ago
KeepTheFaith, ColonelDecker, DogFace and PieFace - cheers for all that, you've all put your points across really well. Im not going to respond to each individually, because, well, I dont have 19 hours to spare. But also because there are similiarities in everyone's argument and I totally understand what you're all saying, and everyone together has probably answered everything I want to know for now.
If I ever come round to your ideas, it will take me a while of watching and seeing things unfold infront of me. I know you've all mentioned the previous games and I accept that (dont worry Neil, I will never forget Birmingham, I've never felt so low after a game since leaving the Stade de France, Spurs winning the CC the day after and hearing my neighbours tear the house down didn't help either), but I will prefer to see things myself and am more interested actually in the 'Riley' type performances that we saw on saturday more than anything.
What I will do is watch the next few months unfold with a more open mind and look at matches a lot more closely, and also look at patterns every weekend. Who knows, I might be able to clean up down Ladbrokes for a change. Also, Adam, about Berbatov looking like he weren't trying, that's pretty much a given!
Anyway, sorry if I offended people the way I came bursting onto this board all guns blazing. Maybe I'll come back in May and say you were right all along. I hope I dont have to, not because of pride or anything, but because I wouldnt want to accept it happening, in my eyes at least. I know quite a few have accepted it, that's fair enough.
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Post 84
DogFace replied to HeatSeeker's post12 hours ago
Nice one HeatSeeker - send me an email address and I'll hit you up with some info/links etc.
When you learn to spot what's going on, as it's happening - everything changes.
Peace out.
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Post 85
ColonelDecker replied to HeatSeeker's post about a minute ago
Good man HeatSeeker,
Continue to post on every topic my man, don't leave it until May. You will find the discussions far more interesting than just getting wound up by the twats on the other group. You get plenty more than just match fixing on here and after a good win everyone goes a little giddy and it can be seriously funny if not a little weird.
Nice one for being able to open your mind and nice one on wanting to make your own mind up.
Respect on both counts.
