Tuesday, 23 September 2008

I'm looking for the mechanical music museum

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From: DogFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 17:32
To: PieFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues
 
No worries...
 
...You realise that this email thread is getting blogged right?
 
:-D
 
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From: PieFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 15:56
To: DogFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues
 
Nah, coming back from Wales tonight, my train gets in too late to be able to get to the Emirates - will have to give this one a miss.
 
Wilshere to score first!

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From: DogFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 15:47
To: PieFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues
 
Indeed... let us maintain our views and time will tell.
 
You going to the game tonight; it might be possible to ponce a spare ticket for club level if you are interested in seeing the kids take on Sheffield!?  We'll probably be the only ones up there though!
 
Oh yeah, some sources:
 
 
Or just google it:
 
 
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From: PieFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 15:41
To: DogFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues
 
Reference to old Etonians was in the eyes of DD not me. Plus I agree with their strategy of running the club with consistent sustainable and profitable growth at the forefront of their minds as opposed to being a rich person's fantasy football team. With a manager like AW you can still challenge - its still eleven v eleven over 90 minutes at the end of the day.
 
I am positive Dein never advocated moving from Highbury to Wembley (sources?) although I concede it may be true about the development phase, that is something I know nothing about.
 
Anyway lets agree to disagree on this, I'll be willing to believe that Dein will see the error of his ways, swallow his pride and possibly come back a better person for it, and if you continue to believe that he's an incredible tool that will never change his spots, I'll understand why.
 
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From: DogFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 15:07
To: PieFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues.
 
Actually - I believe that Dein wanted to relocate to play at Wembley rather than build a new stadium – hence the European games being held there in the late 90's... his opposition was to the building of the new stadium (as I stated) rather than the knowledge that we could fill a larger venue – that is obvious.  He was also opposed to Arsenal running the development phase and, instead, wanted to put it out to contract – again he was proved incredibly wrong (see the 'new Wembley' for proof of how these things can spiral into bankruptcy).
 
It is my understanding that Dein, in the face of the mounting evidence against the validity of his business acumen and decision making, refused to change his stance – thus alienating himself from the rest of the board (ergo 'his precious')... it should also be pointed out – fan or no – that Dein's stubborn myopic streak has stung him in the past and chasing bad ideas is what has reduced him from 42% shareholder of Arsenal to a 0% shareholder in the first place.  Also – Dein's personal agenda with regards to his slippery courting of foreign investment to 'put him back where he felt he belonged'; all behind the back of the board of directors, had an incredibly destabilising effect on the club.
 
The elitist old Etonians, which they undoubtedly are, seem to have that 'old money' longer term view for the club as a sustainable outfit... their stance to shun 'new money' might indeed be down to snobbery but I feel that the ends, in this case, justifies the means.
 
Dein may have brought in Wenger but all respect must go to Wenger for the job he has done... this kudos cannot be retrospectively fitted or apportioned back to the man who hired him.  Wenger is unique – the likes of Dein are ten-a-penny... if anything I believe that he has lost touch with the working class fan base more than the elitist old Etonians, freemasons, Lady muck's and diamond dealers... which, in my inverted working class snobbery, makes it even worse – as a 'fan' he should know better.
 
Like I said… humble pie – and a big portion with ice cream and custard.
 
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From: PieFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 13:31
To: DogFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues.
 
We've always differed a little on this one ...

Dein never opposed the new stadium. The new stadium was agreed and planned way before the big fall-out. No-one ever saw it as a cash burden, but as a necessary step in Arsenal's evolution as big club. Highbury, with a 38,000 capacity, was simply too small, everyone knew that. Dein included.
 
He and Hill-Wood fell out because Dein wanted to get Kroenke in to bankroll the club and play the game the same way as Man Utd with the Glazers and Liverpool with Hicks and Gillett (and to a lesser extent, Chelsea and Abramovich). Dein was convinced that the only way to stay competitive and guarantee premiership aspirations and Champions League qualification was to sell out for the megabucks to buy the best players and pay them the best wages.
 
What then happened was that Dein overplayed his hand. He may not have been a major shareholder, but he believed that he had the hearts and minds of the manager (Wenger, his appointee), the players (TH14 one of his biggest mates and a powerful force in the dressing room) and the fans, all on his side. He was, after all, Mr Arsenal. What he didn't realise was that ultimately, money talks (or more to the point, the shareholders call the shots). Hill-Wood got Fiszman and Lady Nina on his side, adopted a somewhat stuffy "we don't want no foreign scumbags" attitude, and basically drew a line in the sand for Dein. This must have been a big ego knife-wound for a guy who had poured his heart and soul into the club, and he wasn't the type to go away with his tail between his legs and toe the line he didn't believe in, dictated by a bunch of elitist Old Etonians who didn't really understand football anyway in his eyes.
 
Since then he has learned the hard way that pride comes before a fall. Henry left for Barca, removing his influence in the dressing room; he expected 100% loyalty from Wenger, but misjudged the fact that Wenger's loyalty lay not with Dein, but with the players and team he had crafted, and was too honourable and stright-shooting a guy to play political games with that trust and respect. Without a controlling interest, Dein metamorphosed from trusted and passionate 'fixer' into troubled and bitter 'spoiler', jumping into bed with the first Arsenal-fancying billionaire who came along, who unfortunately happened to be one of the biggest and nastiest pieces of work east of the Urals.
 
I honestly think that Dein's association with Usmanov is what has damned him to his current respect level. It's a long way back for him but he is still an Arsenal fan who only wanted what he thought was best (even if he is wrong, in our book).
 
I do feel sorry for him. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be at the heart of the success story you were pivotal in creating. And he has got plenty of short-sighted Arsenal fans believing in his philosophy of getting a billionaire in to compete wage-wise and transfer-fee-wise with the big boys. He made the mistake of saying "if you don't follow my advice, I'm out of here and then you'll be sorry" - when they told him "OK, don't let the doorknob smack you on your arse on the way out" - there was no going back. It's only his passion for the club that drove him into his desparate errors; only a true fan would have bothered to work his way back into the club, riding on the coat-tails of someone with insane amounts of money who can buy his way into a controlling interest.
 
I think we should give the guy a break, be thankful he is now splitting from the fat pig, and remember him fondly for getting us Wenger, Henry etc which led to a golden era. And don;t rule out the humble pie. We've already seen that he'll do anything and evrything to get himself back into Arsenal.
 
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From: DogFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 13:03
To: PieFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues.
 
Nah – barring him eating a huge slice of public humble pie I have no respect for him at all - he's lost. 
 
I have no respect for anyone who would have Jabba sitting at the head of the board room while he cackles about as Hill-Wood is fed to the Sarlac and Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith dances on the end of a chain purely and simply to satisfy their own ego.  He is not a team player – these are the actions of someone who has lost the plot. 
 
I think Dein when opposed the new stadium development; that was where the trouble started... he, overruled on that one, went sniffing around billionaires for the funds that he was convinced we'd need to 'compete'… this was obviously in order to give credence to his opposition in the first place and set him up, in his mind, to ride in as the savior shouting 'I told you so' for the mess our 'cash burden' grove had put us in... he fell in love with this fantasy and it took over any love that he proclaimed to have for the club. 
 
He loves the club as an entity to revolve around him - simple.  He want's success, yes, but it is only a success with him at the centre – he wants to be 'Arsenal history'... alas he is turning into a joke.  Thanks, for Wenger and the good work he did at that time – he should have stuck with it (buying/selling players and being a custodian of the future success of the club) and not played power politics and trying to make himself 'the man'.
 
Idiot.
 
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From: PieFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 12:32
To: DogFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues.
 
If it wasn't for Dein, we would never have had a certain Mr A. Wenger as our manager. That fact alone qualifies him for respect.
 
I see him as Annakin Dein, following a massive row with the Jedi council over the best direction and strategy of the Jedi order, lured over to the Dark Side by the Dark Uzbek Lord of the Sith. He still has a pride and ego problem - probably falls asleep at night dreaming of the day he is triumphantly light-sabreing his way through Hill-Wood's neck a.k.a.sitting smugly at the head of the Boardroom table telling a cowering Hill-Wood "you're fired". 
 
BUT with the poisonous influence of the Sith eradicated I have hope for him, strong is he with the force (not all Arsenal fans dislike him - I don't), he is passionate about the club and has done a vast amount in our success, notwithstanding that I don't necessarily agree with his strategic bent towards buddying-up with a billionaire and injecting flipping great wodges of cash to protect the club against the future scenario you yourself have envisaged, stuck in the UEFA Cup as the moneybags teams buy all the best players, including our own. I say, keep it pure, play the beautiful game for the game's sake and not for money's sake, and good will triumph over evil. Look into your heart David, let go of your hate ...
 
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From: DogFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 12:04
To: PieFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues.
 
I don't think Dein has got much to offer anyone now that he has sold all his shares to the Usbek blubber-mountain and nobody at Arsenal likes him... although he is clearly desperate to get back in and bring a billionaire with him.  I really don't like Dein much at all – he has personally brought these characters to our door, first with his chumminess with Kroneke (which got him expelled in the first place) and then with his cosy chats with Usmanov – Red & White holdings... *whatever*.  All responsibility lies with him – we didn't want 'his type' but now we have him, i.e. Kroneke, forced on us.
 
All thanks to "Mr. Arsenal"... why any of the fans still have any time for his is beyond me.
 
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From: PieFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 11:46
To: DogFace
Subject: RE: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues.
 
All good to read
 
Glad to hear that Dein has left Red and White, he was Usmanov's only hope of getting his feet under the Arsenal table. Perhaps he'll buddy up with Kroenke now - you never know. I'm suspicious of Kroenke's motives but anything's better than the alternative.
 
say we are top of the league
 
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From: DogFace
Sent: 23 September 2008 10:59
To: PieFace
Subject: North-bank-Enders... the saga continues.
 
Hmmm… 
 
 
Interesting stuff on the Arsenal/Usmanov crisis... this is certainly good news for this season if it is true as he won't be looking to 'divide and conquer' with regards to the results/fanbase.  I still don't like the Kroenke involvement but with the finances in order and Wenger at the wheel - I can't see him wanting to rock the boat too much.
 
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